Here is a question that might stir debate:

Does anyone have photo proof that the SA Regiment Feldherrnhalle used special vertical hangers for their SA daggers ? Unit pictures ?

Dave

No opinions ?

I have seen several posts over the years showing bayonet-like (or frog-like) SA vertical hangers attributed to the SA Regiment Feldherrnhalle. All were different.

What are considered the real ones?

Dave

Dave, this is a very good question! I myself have never seen a FHH picture showing this type worn. This should be interesting. I have a post right now with a vertical hngr that I feel is NSKK and it's very simalar to the ones you mention and it's RZM marked like most we have seen, is there anything in an accutriments catalog the identifies these types of hangers?

Fritziii

Fritz,

I have never heard of anything in catalogs that identifies FHH enlisted hangers. It may be present, but I missed the reference to that particular one.

Anyone have examples to post ?

Dave

Dave,
I've one, but my pics aren't of the best quality!

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I HAVE A PHOTO ALBUM CIRCA 1936, THAT BELONGED TO A YOUNG MAN WHO WAS A MEMBER OF FELDHERRNHALLE. THERE ARE NUMEROUS PHOTOS OF THE FHH SQUADS ON REVIEW. IN ALL CASES, THE DAGGER IS SUSPENDED BY NORMAL MEANS.

Hi Jochen,
What maker mark on your dagger?

Maybe this is another Urban Legend. I remember seeing the frogs referred to as FHH in some reference books...wonder where they got the info?

I have one, and the crossguard has no gau mark at all. I think they are supposed to be marked with a W.
John

I think you are right there John.
Seiler.

EXCEPT FOR THE CADRE, MEN AND JUNIOR GRADE OFFICERS OF THE FELDHERRNHALLE WERE ANNUALY CHOSEN AS THE ELITE FROM THE VARIOUS SA GRUPPE.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN UNDER THE OPINION THAT THESE MEN BROUGHT THEIR DAGGERS WITH THEM FOR THEIR YEAR SERVICE. I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY PROOF THAT THE BAYONET STYLE FROG IS NOT JUST ANOTHER EARLY FORM OF VERTICAL HANGER. I HAVE SEEN THREE OF THESE OVER THE YEARS, INCLUDING ONE IN MY COLLECTION THAT WERE DIRECT VETERAN PURCHASES. IN EACH CASE, THE DAGGER IS MARKED WITH A STANDARD S A GRUPPE MARK ON THE CROSSGUARD, NOT A "W."

I have a W

Wow, now that is interesting Bitberg. I thought the W was the gau mark, not an extra added W mark. I think I have seen the gau mark as just a W. I have never seen an added W like that. It looks like a unique size font W, so if others have this on their daggers and it looks like the same stamp, that would be helpful to say it is the real deal, and not a fantasy added to the dagger by someone trying to creat a FHH dagger.

John

ALL S A GRUPPE AND OBERGRUPPE HEADQUARTERS HAD THEIR OWN STAFF GUARDS WHO WORE A CUFFTITLE "STABSWACHT." I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL OF THESE "W" MARKS ON CROSSGUARDS IN THE PAST AND HAVE ALWAYS CONSIDERED THEM TO INDICATE OWNERSHIP BY A MEMBER OF ONE OF THESE UNITS, NOT THE FELDHERRNHALLE.

Does anyone have pictures of ANY SA vertical hangers in wear?

We know they exist, although not in great numbers, so they were worn at some time or other. Perhaps by members of bands, or flag bearers, or others who could not use their left hand to dampen the movement.

Dave

I have seen that "W" mark a couple of times, both times off center as above.

Anyone have a shot of it centered like a Gau mark ?

Meanwhile, here is another "W" to discuss

Dave

Here's a J.A. Henckels with a W. Under a loop you can see the Gau mark Wf polished out and the W restamped.

..

Raymond,

That looks to me like a double strike which is not uncommon. The guy hit it the first time and didn't like the result, so he gave it another hit. You also see a fair amount of strikes where the stamp was not perpendicular to the crossguard and so one end or the other is hard to read.

Below is another interesting photo I downloaded a long time ago. Comments ?

Dave

I am starting to think that the FHH vertical did not exist as a single, identifiable frog. Maybe it did not exist at all as an FFH frog.

The first mention I can find is Angolia's dagger book of 1970. Page 39. There is a close up and an in-wear picture ... but they are not the same hanger.

The big "W" still defies a watertight explanation if it is seen on both SS and SA daggers ... ?

Thoughts or contradictions ?

Dave

Dave, do you have any other pictures of the SS with the W? Is there a group mark on the other side of the cross guard? The crossguards look buffed, the grip looks refinished, and the Runes button looks set too deep....in other words, maybe that particular example is questionable. Maybe it's just the poor picture quality. Plus, it would be nice if there was more than one SS marked example.

John

John,

It is an old image harvested from .. probably eBay. The faults you mention are real , but so is the "W". What to make of this, I don't know.

Dave

Ah, OK Dave. I agree, the W looks the same as the others, but it could be a parts dagger. I'd hate to shoot down the SA "STABSWACHT" theory with one questionable example looking like an SS dagger.

Any more examples from anyone?


Thanks, John