For further confirmation Pat, have a look at display case -page 10 of my site for pics of the unmarked chain on the NSKK I acquired from Craig

Paul

Thanks JR !
Indeed Paul, your chained NSKK also has the same specific attributes than ALL of the unmarked chain. It shows that you have an original unmarked chain being produced by the "unknown" manufacturer and not by Assmann.
Perhaps, if we have enought evidence on this type of chain, we could call them the "textbook unmarked" chained NSKK.
In order for it to be "textbook", it would require that all of the unmarked chains NSKK have the same attributes..............which seems to be the case on all of those chained NSKK that I have seen so far.
BTW, I never saw your web page before and you certainly have a wonderful collection.
Especially the DAMASCUS RLB dagger, it is a beauty and probably unique.
Way to go !

I would really like to get some more feedback on those collectors, that have an unmarked chained NSKK.
Would like to know if you all have the same consistent attributes, especially the "curved oak leaf" to the right of the clip.
Thanks !
Here's one that I've just saw on Gambino web page. A classic "textbook" unmarked chained NSKK with the curved oak leaf to the right.
http://www.sterlinggambino.com/Militaria_Detail2.cfm?ID=934
One more evidence.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pat,

What I find to be most interesting about these daggers is that the Honor types have both snaps and rectangle type upper chain fittings. On some-it would seem that the rectangle fitting was changed to a snap.

Thank you Pat-it is a remarkable piece, incidently it is pictured extensively in Tom Johnsons new reference set.

Paul

Houston,

For what reason do you think that the snap-clip was added to the flat, open frame cartouche, when it would appear that it was designed to be suspended from a snap-clip hanging from the belt?

Also, could you please tell me what examples you know of that have had a snap-clip added to the open frame - and are these modified pieces still available to be seen?

Many thanks
FJS

Pat,here is mine. This a "field upgrade" i.e. three upper links, added to an Ed. Wusthof dagger. It is unmarked other than the "Musterschutz" on the top link of the long chain. Hope this helps! teufel
P.S. GOOD EYE!

Thanks, you have another "textbook" non-RZM marked chained NSKK.
Once again, notice the curved oak leaf to the right hand side.
Something you will never find on an Assman marked chain.
I'm not much of a computer wizard but would really appreciate if someone could post a pic of a side-by-side comparaison, of the 2 types of clip hanger.

Fred-On some-it looks like the square fitting was removed and a snap added. Perhaps some type of upgrade to match the model 1936 chain-or? Perhaps an old order will surface regarding this although that would be a lot to hope for.

Here's a comparative picture of both types of chained NSKK. As you can see, both types are completely different from one another. The so called "texbook" is on the left hand side, being the RZM-Assman marked, and the one on the right hand side, is my so called "textbook" unmarked RZM chain.
Please, notice how different are the oak leafs.

There's also another element that seems to differenciates the RZM-Asmann marked versus an "unmarked RZM" chain.
I don't know how to call it, but the "clip" seem to be much thinner on a non-RZM chain.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pat,

Unmarked on the left. Assman on the right.

Pat,

I don't think your 'thin' theory can be applied to tell the difference. I think this pertains to short early (so called snub nose clips) and late ones which are longer. I think this is a time difference as opposed to maker difference.

In these pics, the unmarked clip is an early one (snub nose) and the Assman is a later clip.

However, you will notice that the acorn in the middle of the oakleaves touches the oakleaves on the unmarked clip but does not touch on the Assman clip.

Bernie, you are quite correct about the clip and thanks for your input.
Very logical explanation.
Based on that picture, we can certainly appreciate the differences on the unmarked oak leaf pattern versus the RZM-marked oak leaf pattern, which seems to be always consistent.

The connector links are also different on picture A and picture B. The ones in picture A are wider than those on picture B. A seam is also apparent on the links on pic B.

Also, the bigger connecting links are well finished and have no visable opening and are closed.
When you compare numbers, the unmarked chains are much better and earlier.
Chained NSKK Daggers are much harder to find than SS Chained Daggers.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

I find the NSKK Chained dagger, one of the most beautiful dagger on the market and extremely undervalued, when considering, as stated by Ron, that they are much more rarer than a Chained SS.

I also agree with Ron that all of the unmarked chained NSKK are of better quality.
On most of the unmarked chains that I've seen, the plating was still very solid, shiny and little rust was evident on them. As for the Assman, most were having rust problems and major plating loss on their chains.
The unmarked chains were definitively better made, which would suggest that perhaps they were "earlier".
When you put both types side by side, the difference in quality is very noticeable.

Great detective work and Pat I concur with your findings. This kind of work makes this forum a treasure trove of information.

Thanks Paul !

I was just very lucky but it makes the hobby so much more interesting and stimulating.

I agree with Pat , the NSKK-chained is undervalued-compared with the SS-chained .May be the SS is a "black-dagger"

Good work Pat!

I had a great textbook one from Craig
but nobody wants to pay for them!

Sold at SOS!

Shame as they are nice and undervalued!

But not SS!


PVON

The Chained NSKK is very much undervalued but things could change with Wittmann's new book on the subject.

Sorry about the delay, Here are the pics of the back side of the chain. Thanks Grant.

another.