Thought you guys might like to take a closer look at these. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=104001&item=6528443941&rd=1

pat

Hi Patrick,

I saw these.

About 30 years ago I was given a box of insignia, tinnies and medals by our German relations to play with. Unfortunately most of this stuff is scatterred to the four winds now.

I remember finding a pair of tabs almost exactly like these but with only ONE pip in the center of each tab. There is no reason to think they were embellished but I cannot imagine what the pip is suppossed to denote.

Surely this isn't regulation?

Diane

Another eBay deal?, fuzzy pictures, no return stated, not a lot of money for a "rare" item anyway.
Buyer be ware...

Hey Pat, good to see you are still lurking around and watching the police goods! Those are odd, really odd, and perhaps the seller has a little too much faith in them being original as they appear. Doesn’t make much sense to add shoulder strap pips to the collar tab and promotion/demotion would be a bugger! Did find it interesting that they are made from a black velvet material. Poor pictures certainly don't help!

Interesting collar tabs Pat. I don't know what they are either, but I am betting they are not NS Zeit Pol-Veterinary tabs. I have some of these but they certainly look postwar to me. This one is not on velvet but is on black badge cloth backing.

Here is another set without the piping and with black stripes in the litzen. Notice that the tabs with piping seem to be slightly longer than the standard NS Zeit Polizei collar tabs for some reason. These are unissued and still sewn together. They are also slightly shorter than those shown above. Perhaps they are Pol-Vet, but I am not holding my breath.

The Post War Berlin Schupo / Berietschaftpolizei used black WW2 style collar tabs from 1947-76 on their grey uniforms.

The early postwar tabs were the same style & dimensions as the wartime issue and appear to have been used from 1947-?. It is just possible that original wartime issue tabs were even worn during this period.

From 1945-47 shoulder boards were not worn by German Police in the Western Occupation Sectors. One of the Allied Control comission occupation edicts adopted in June 1945 forbid the wearing of shoulder board rank insignia by German officials.

Collar tabs and sleeve insignia were allowed however and the designs & rank schemes varie from one occupation zone to another.

Interestingly the Reichbahn continued to wear their collar tabs (less swastika) until a new pattern was adopted in 1948.

Could pips have been applied to collar tabs to denote rank during the period 1945-47?

I have seen photographic evidence of WW2 Police uniforms being worn with collar tabs but no shoulder boards in 1946.

In the movie "Germany Year Zero" filmed in Berlin in during the summer of 1947 the Berlin Police are shown wearing the grey open collar tunics with WW2 style collar tabs and shoulder boards again.

These tabs would likely have been made to the wartime specifications by the original manufacturer(s). By now they are over 55 years old and would be indistinguishable from those issued from 1938-45. How to tell?

Fortunately, sometime in the late 50's or early 60's the Berlin police went to a much smaller sized, rectangula collar tab that looks a lot like the ones used by the Bundeswehr.

The black NCO tabs brings up the consideration whether Vet or Arzt NCOs would have worn such black or blue boards or tabs. I don't think so as that was the purpose of the specialty sleeve patch. For the Ebay seller to cite the Brian Davis book is a joke.

I would agree with Diane's assessment that these are probably very early postwar Schupo / Berietschaftspolizei collar tabs. I suppose pips on these tabs to indicate rank is not so far-fetched either if shoulder boards were not worn. They could have worn pips on the collar tabs in the same manner that other postwar Polizei agencies did. The only other alternative was stripes on the sleeve, and in some cases you will see stripes worn on the collar tabs to indicate rank.

George

Hello Diane, I tried to email you and it came back to me, Have you had a chance to locate that Busby Skull you mentioned? You can email me at bateman@Amtrak.com
Thanx for the help
RGRDS
RED9