Hello,

Found this transitional police photo on German E-Bay with an unidentified cuff title. He is wearing a Prussian police uniform and the cuff reads "--brandmeister"

Any ideas out there?

Regards,
Bill Unland

this man has some serious tin on his chest...

Whip over to the WAF and the answer to the very interesting finding is outlined in very nice detail. Dave/dblmed

sorry to be exceptionally dim, but can dblmed please explain his post?

thanks

hpt

Dear hpt,

I posted this photo on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum as well as this forum and a member over there identified the cufftitle, thats what Dave was referring to.. Apparently this title was a fire department job description and has not been seen on a cuff title before. It reads "Kreisbrandmeister". I am not sure exactly what his job was, but he is definitely a fireman. His medals were also identified as Bavarian, so a Bayernfeuerwehr officer. Note was also made that he is wearing an enlisted man's bayonet although his rank is officer. Finally the photo was identified as the transition period with the "new" 1934 caps and the old non TR tunic.

The cuffband was possible made up by the wearer for his personal use as there is no regulation specifying it.

Oh by the way this photo sold for 120Euros on German E-bay !!!!!!

Regards,
Bill Unland

Bill,

I am not very good on transitional Feuerwehr ranks but I agree that the cufftitle indicates a position and not a rank, per se. The FW rank shoulderboards in this photo seems to be a Senior NCO with two pips, however he is also wearing Officer cap cords like a Meister.

So, what do we have? He seems to be a FW Haupt-truppführer in the transitional rank structure. I think this rank was also called Haupt-brandmeister around this time. The 1938 Eickhorn catalog (slightly later than this picture as indicated by the cap eagle) states that long FW bayonets should be worn by, "Feuerwehrmann bis einschleisslich Brandmeister." The short FW bayonet should be worn by, "Oberbrandmeister an aufwärts Ebenfalls zugelassen vom Haupt-brandmeister bezw. Wehrführer an aufwärts."

This fellow seems to be a Senior NCO wearing the short bayonet (I can't really tell) with the Meister style FW Portepee. Firemen seem to have marched to the beat of their own drummer. I bet this cufftitle is like the "Spiess" or "Zugführer" cuffbands that could be worn by several NCO ranks. At any rate, this fellow appears to be an "Unteroffizier mit Portepee" from what I can see.

George

On second thought, I really don't know the length of the faschinenmesser, it might be a short model. The item is more easily seen on this picture that Bill posted. The scabbard length appears to extend down to near the edge of his tunic. In the smaller WAF, it looked a lot more like a long model, now I'm up in the air. It could very well be a short model, especially since the knot is the higher grade bullion type. In any event, a great picture with a super medal bar, thanks for posting it Bill.

I knew I'd seen this guy before, & I was right, page 424 of Gert Efler's "Deutsche Feuerwehr Auszeichnungen". Picture shows the same guy with a slightly different, more frontal view, tentatively identified as Kreisbrandmeister Sauer, 1938, with the same medal bar too. Sorry I don't have a scanner but if anyone else has the book, it would be great if you could post a scan.

Hello! My english is not the best, (i am german) but i hope You can understand what I mean.

At first: Germany was and is split in "Länder" (like the States in USA) And every "Land" (State) has many Districts in German: "Landkreis" or "Kreis". This "Kreis" is an Area with some little Tows and Villages and the most important Town in this "Kreis" ist the "Kreisstadt"

Look at this picture by Wikipedia:
the fat lines are the borders of a "Land"
the fine lines are the borders of a "Kreis"


At second: The "Kreisbrandmeister" is not a Rank it is a title. He is the Leader of every Firebrigade in his "Kreis".

Oh I see, the Question is old. I hope, this Info is although intresting . . .

quote:

Originally posted by DRS:
Hello! My english is not the best, (i am german) but i hope You can understand what I mean.

At first: Germany was and is split in "Länder" (like the States in USA) And every "Land" (State) has many Districts in German: "Landkreis" or "Kreis". This "Kreis" is an Area with some little Tows and Villages and the most important Town in this "Kreis" ist the "Kreisstadt"

Look at this picture by Wikipedia:
the fat lines are the borders of a "Land"
the fine lines are the borders of a "Kreis"


At second: The "Kreisbrandmeister" is not a Rank it is a title. He is the Leader of every Firebrigade in his "Kreis".

Oh I see, the Question is old. I hope, this Info is although intresting . . .

Hello and Welcome to the forum DRS! Yes, the information/explination you provided is very helpful and thanks for the posting!