ORPO

Posted 12 September 2004 11:38
There is much confusion between Strafvollzug and Justiz uniforms. Strafvollzug Beamte might be considered as prison wardens while Justiz Beamte might be considered as court officials such as bailifs. This distinction is actually not so clear cut and there seems to be much overlap and integration in their duties. What seems to be more clear is that they wore the identical sword with a gold finish for Strafvollzug Officials and a silver finish for Justiz Officials. Biesen- und Effektenfarbe colors are more confusing with red being associated with Strafvollzug and green being associated with Justiz.

Anyone with regulations for Strafvollzug or Justiz please chime in here.

Bernd Ostermann has two tunics that give every appearance of being for the Strafvollzug. Here is a view of the first one that seems to conform to known examples.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

ORPO

Posted 12 September 2004 11:43
View of the collar tabs that have green backing with gold piping and a single gold litzen stripe. These tabs have been observed with a button at one end of the stripe but these tabs do not have a button at the back edge. Notice the green wool collar as well.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

ORPO

Posted 12 September 2004 11:46
Close up view of the insignia showing gold and green Meister boards. This is an early tunic with three hooks at the collar and shows much wear.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

ORPO

Posted 12 September 2004 11:50
View of the red piping that is generally associated with the Strafvollzug. Interestingly, this tunic has red piping on both flaps of the tunic front. This tunic also has a sword/bayonet slot and Bernd feels it may be a Weimar period tunic that was worn into the NS Zeit.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

ORPO

Posted 12 September 2004 11:59
View of the back of the tunic showing the typical four panel cut. This tunic has no inside breast pocket but does have the pockets in in the boxed tail lining. The two smooth silver buttons at the tail are belt ramps and all buttons are Assmann marked.

Note the color on some of these photos is a little off, but the tunic is in fact green with a green collar. The piping is the proper carmine red and not Artillery red as it tended to come out in the photos. One can clearly see the wear caused by wearing the belt with a cross strap over the right shoulder.

George

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 12:45
Hello George

I like that, I do not know what time frame it is from but it looks good, here is my jope style. The peaked cap I have been told is later justice with black cap band and schupo piping. I do worry though that it is post war, looks right inside though and is dated 1938, totally unissued. The black swaetband is still very soft.


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 12:48
Jacket front


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 12:53
Collar


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 12:58
Back


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 13:01
Cap Front


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 13:05
Side


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 13:09
Inside

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Gary8,


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

patrick
Posted 13 September 2004 15:47
Great idea for a thread George, this is by far a very confusing area with little ref material.

I was able to pick my tunic off of EBAN earlier this year, it is a bit worn by for the price I wasn't complaining. Anyway the only other items I have are two pair of boards.

I just need the pink piped set know. hehehe

Gary love the visor, I remember when you first posted it, glad you found some info on it. Very nice and clean.

pat

"I only had two beers officer, I swear."

"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"


Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002

patrick
Posted 13 September 2004 15:48
2

"I only had two beers officer, I swear."

"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"


Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002

patrick
Posted 13 September 2004 15:50
3

"I only had two beers officer, I swear."

"In GOD we trust, everyone else keep your hands were we can see them"


Posts: 1146 | Location: alexandria, va us | Registered: 13 January 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 16:22
I guess this cap could go with the first uniform


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 16:30
side


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 16:45
Back


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 16:55
Cord


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

Gary8
Posted 13 September 2004 17:03
inside


Posts: 1565 | Location: England | Registered: 03 June 2002

johnrtse
Posted 13 September 2004 23:09
I'm really enjoying all the great uniforms in this thread.

Just an observation; I don't see any national eagles on the breast or sleeve- Were they used on these uniforms?

Thanks in advance!
John
Posts: 111 | Location: New Ulm, Minnesota USA | Registered: 16 May 2003

ORPO

Posted 14 September 2004 12:10
John,

These uniforms do not seem to have utilized a sleeve eagle that we are aware of.

Gary & Pat,

OK, you guys have shown the open collar and the closed collar Justiz uniforms, so here is the earlier style with concealed buttons. I think we can all agree that these green piped uniforms are Justiz as opposed to Strafvollzug uniforms. Interestingly, these all have gold buttons and the Justiz sword is silver. Bernd's uniform has silver buttons and the Strafvollzug sword is gold finished.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

ORPO

Posted 14 September 2004 12:16
Here is Bernd's second uniform. This one is very similar to the first one and shows much wear and signs of alteration to conceal the red piping. We both believe this to also be a Strafvollzug tunic.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003

ORPO

Posted 14 September 2004 12:20
Notice that the collar on this tunic is piped in red but the front is not. Actually, the front was piped in red but the piping has been removed from the exterior flap during the time of use.

"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson


Posts: 2456 | Registered: 25 October 2003