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German Daggers Dot Com
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Edged Weapons
The BCN Bayonet Forum
Police Unit Marked Bayonet|
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This is a police seitengewehr with an unusal unit mark. The scabard is black indicating municipal service. The bayonet and scabbard are matching.
Purchased this bayonet about 12 years ago. Overview |
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Police insignia on stag grip
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Manufacturer's logo
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Police unit mark on the crossguard.
K = Kriminalpolizei M = Munster 132 = weapon inventory number |
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Matching unit mark on the scabbard. Some of the finish has worn off showing the copper color.
The scratched in letters and numbers may be the GI's name and his service number. These markings can only be seen under magnification. |
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Lower portion of the leather scabbard including metal fitting, staple and the ball
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Tip of the blade. The scabbard stitching is still intact along it's length.
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Unslotted bird's head
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Great looking piece
"On the road to Phelamanga" |
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Correct unit IMO is the Kommunialpolizei. Kriminalpolizei were plain clothes I believe.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955. |
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Houston
What were the Kommunialpolizei? What was their function? I know the Kriminalpolizei were detectives, but who knows if they might have been issued one of these seitengewehrs. The plain clothes guys came from the uniformed branch and may have been required to keep their issued uniforms. |
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Small Town Prussian Police discontinued in the later Thirties. They wore gold colored clamshells. When most Police bayonets were cut down during the Third Reich some of these were nickel plated and re-issued. This one appears to have been gold as it is showing through. Even though the K is designated in references as being for the Kriminalpolizei they ommitted the fact that it also stands for the Kommunialpolizei. There also are other ommissions-other letters for units not mentioned.
I have collected and studied these Police bayonets for many years and have about twice the number shown in this old photo-all are different in some way. Most collectors don't know much about them and the reference material that is available is far from complete and sometimes in error. MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955. ![]() |
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Nicely conditioned, unusual unit marking & distinctive gold peeking through. Just a super piece.
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>>>>>>I AM SPEECHLESS
can not believe my eyes >>>> WOW unbelievable collection congrats >> Houston please post some pictures of the complete collection >>maybe some close up pictures >>> regards Aleksandr |
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Houston
Thank you for the info on the Kommunialpolizei. Obiviously the gold color that is under the nickel is the evidence. Your correct that most of the reference books only seen to refer the police letter K to the Kriminalpolizei. We all learn something new, even on pieces that have been in our collections for quite sometime. Joe |
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Hello,
K allways means Kriminalpolizei. K.M. = Kriminalpolizei Muentser. Muenster never had a "Komunalpolizei". In the original stamping regulations of the prussian statt police und the later Reichspolizei K allways means Kriminalpolizei. Komunalpolizei... in english rual police owns the stamp L for Landjaegerei. K never used for Kommunalpolizei. - a german police officer - |
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rual police used brown leather... not black.
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gard
Thank you for your information on the police letter K when used in a unit mark. I was aware that the rural police used brown leather. This matched scabbard's leather is black and that color should support your statement. It should be interesting to read Houston's remarks concerning your comments. Joe |
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There are period gold police bayonets with K unit marks and IMO they certainly did not belong to the Kriminalpolizei.You also might be interested to know that Rural police bayonets sometimes have G letters as well as L. Not many but they do exist.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955. |
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oh..this informations are to cursorly.
i must know the modell, the period stamp and...and this is the importend point... the staate. bavaria, preussen, sachsen etc. so every staate bevor 1933 use own stamps. in prussia...since 1932 K was kriminalpolizei. the shown bajonett is out of this period. not bevor. black leather indikates no use by rual units... so Muenter was no rual eara. a Konumalpolizei always exists in a Komune.... it is like a village-community... also called ordungspolizei, ortspolizeibehoerde, ordnungsamt or some other names. in some staats also called gendermerie or gerndameriekommando (since the end of the 1970 er years)under command of Kreisverwaltungen or landramtsaemter and others, in oposit of citypolice or staatepolice... so i think this is the g... but this fact is well known. "Kumunalpolzei" nerver exist in this way... a lot of names were used. |
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When it comes to the Kommunalpolizei you can't use information from the Prussian Police in regards to letters--because according to Angolia's Police reference they were not under the command or control of the Prussian Police-they were under local control and were locally equiped. So M probably does not stand for Munster in the Kommunalpolizei. Evidence can be seen of this because these bayonets often do not have the Prussian Police stamp on the spine. This is also true of the Gemindenpolizei. Several brown scabbards were changed to black when the old Weimar Police units were disbanded and made a part of the Schupo. Many other changes were also made to these bayonets and property from these units was transferred to others. The Kommunalpolizei and the Gemindenpolizei were two such units--so IMO these bayonets are not in their original configuration so the scabbard color means nothing.
The complete story of the German police bayonet is not in any reference in English but may be included in Angolia's 2nd volume on the police. It never ceases to amaze me that German authors never have written a good reference on their own WWII edged weapons and only a VERY few German advanced collectors offer any information and those who may know the answers to many questions only offer a tiny bit of information here and there. Why? MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955. |
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