Guys,

I know very little about the weapons forum but I have a chance to buy a fully automatic MP40 that was found in a local germans attic. It is very pitted on the exterior but mint on on the internal parts. the bolt action work very well. The exterior is really bad in my opinion as it looks as though some "steel Worms" were eating on it. I say that because that the best way I can discribe it. The guy is asking 500 euros for it. Should I pass?

Yes you should pass, and forget you ever saw it.

Im with Kris, pass on it. As per what its worth...Im guessing 10-20 years.

DONT WALK ....RUN FROM THIS.....

You're in Germany and I don't know what the laws are there. I met a guy from Belgium at the SOS who was able to buy an operational MP44 and the authorities let him keep it as long as he didn't have any ammo for it!!(right )
Check the regulations first then decide.
Jim

Walk away!!

Is that your pic in American fatigues? Like your career?. Is 500 Euro worth flipping burgers with an ankle bracelet from Levanworth?.

Ill have a #1 super size it please!!.

Think real hard.

Kris

To make it leagal in Germany the bolt has to be ground at the front in a 45 degree angle, the barrels has to be plugged and 6 holes of caliber diameter have to be drilled through the barrel. This work can only be performed by a certified gun smith. If this has already been done, you should be OK. However, if none of this has been performed, mere possession, even transporting this thing to the gun smith makes you the owner of an illegal fire arm. As this is prior 1945 you will not get charged with violation of the Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz (Control Law for weapons of war), but with the regular weapons law. There is a good chance that you may not go to jail, but prepare yourself for a hefty fine (many times more than the 500 Euros) and you will be convicted of a crime. I do not think either that this would help your carreer. Plus, for how many years are you going to be stationed overseas? If you will be sent back home to the US, you DO NOT want to take this gun with you, as the laws on deactivating weapons are different. Considered, it complies with German law, plugged and drilled barrel and destroyed bolt, you still have an intact receiver for a Class III weapon. No matter how rusty, I do not think that the ATF will like that. I hear the reward for this is 10 years in jail and / or a $100,000 fine.

Interesting, did not know the German law, but an American military man would be subject to god knows what law and how many.

These are popping up recently for some reason, and 20 years ago I might have thought to play around, I even flagged one on Ebay some time ago, the last time the guy told me he had a collection and wanted to sell some guns, and I went to the house and he opened his safe and what do I see? A brand new AK-47 he bought back from nam, a mint Mp-44, and an M-14.

I was like a jackrabbit, I could not get out fast enough, and the only reason I mention this one is because the guy decided 3 months later to fire his Mp-44 in his yard spurred on by a 12 pack of Bud cans and got his tail thrown in jail and had all weapons taken according to the newspaper.

I dont know what they did to him, but I can assure you it was not cheap, and probably got some time, as he was one of the nuttiest individuals I have ever met, likeable, but running a few cylinders short.

If he sold one prior to this incident? I would imagine someone's door would have been taken down soon after.

Like reeling a Great White into a bass boat, what ya gonna do with it?

Thanks guys,

After further investigation on this weapon it has been decomissioned. Some time these guys are hard to understand if you do not know the language very well. The weapon was an attic find however. It looks as the the weapon was converted over to fire blanks. Either way I do not think I would even like to chance chance gettting a weapon like this back in the States when it is time to go back. With the world the way it is now, that would be far more negative attention than I would be will to deal with. I will stand clear of it.

Greg

A wise decision, believe me!

The only legal way to bring it back here at this time would be to have the receiver torch cut into three pieces. The rest of the parts are fine as they are. If the price is reasonable enough it still might be worthwhile to do this and then mount them on a display(dummy) receiver when you get here.
Jim

Jim,

You cant even handle the gun, you cant cut it, torch it, you cant do anything with it, as soon as you take posession of that weapon you are done, I got tossed out of my friends machine shop trying to cut, you think I will call a stranger? And I broke his saw, he threw me out of there fast.

Do not screw around, skilled labor knows the law, you do not walk a bad gun into a machine shop unless its in your garage, and you better have some real good equiptment, because they dont cut easy, there is absolutely no excuse for a machine gun, I dont care what you say.

No Tolerance!!! None, not one teeny weeny little bit, and to even suggest it is irresponsable.

Walk away!! dont touch it!, dont fondle it, dont even think about it!

Run!!!!!!!!!

There are no loopholes here, and I am really getting annoyed, that people think this is like a joke, its not.

And thats all im going to say about it, but I can assure you, you should take very seriously my word.

It is good.

Kris

Kris...are you reading the posts or just typing?Mundt has already said the gun is "Decommisioned".He also stated he isnt even interested in the piece at this point.He is also in Germany...not the USA.Foreign countries may have stricter gun control laws.....but they seem to be a more lenient on the laws regarding dewats.

This "gun" has been deactivated according to German requirements. Deactivating it further isn't breaking any laws there and would allow the owner to import it here. That's all I'm trying to pointout.
Jim

Dave,

did you read the German law? as if you did you would find it is not decommisioned per German law.

Not only that, Mundt is an American, not a German. so he is open to German law, military law and U.S law.

Which is it do you suggest he use to bypass?.

These are popping up, and I am telling you and anyone else considering dicking around, to take the law seriously.

If you are an attorney and work pro-bono, with international law, military law, and U.S law, I will gladly back down and admit my indiscreations.

The gun is not de-commisioned, would you like to debate it counselor?

quote:

Originally posted by jim m:
This "gun" has been deactivated according to German requirements. Deactivating it further isn't breaking any laws there and would allow the owner to import it here. That's all I'm trying to pointout.
Jim

No, It has not, it has been adapted to fire blanks, and blanks require gas pressure, and you cant get gas pressure if you demill the barrel as per german law, its simple. And im not going to debate an ivy league attorney on the function of firearms.

Its not your fault Jim.

Kris

Wow I got a fire storm started. Just to ease everyone's minds. I do not plan on doing anything illegal here or in the States when it comes to dealing with firearms. The biggest thing I have is an antique German pellet gun. Talking to this national he said he had an MP40 that was found in an attic and that it was fully automatic I did not understand the part about being converted over to fire just blanks until I found out later. As much as I think it would be very interesting to have one of these weapons decomissioned or not I would not like to be in the spotlight trying to bring something like this back to the States in any condition. I was just curious if there were other people on the forum that had any of these decom weapons and if it was worth the asking price?

All of you always give good advice and I adhere to it.

Greg

might i suggest you purchase those replica mp-40s produced by the Japanese years ago,,,they are marked "mgc 68" on the back top side...easily looks original without the "legal" hassles involved....

Guys,

There are many differances between Europian gun laws and USA. In UK, for an example, you can have an old spec (all moving parts) MP-40, which simply has a steel pin welded through the receiver and barrel. This would be a no-go in the USA, as the only regulation part (receiver tube) is not cut up / destroyed.

However, you are not allowed to buy or own original usable barrels or bolts for the gun in UK / many Europian countries.

Back home you even need a licence for a BB gun! But when it comes to deactivation of MG´s, there are not any rules, as MG´s are normally banned in Iceland. (Iceland is part of Europe)

Regards

Hinrik

Kris:
I owned at least 1/2 dozen parts kits for Thompsons,AKs, etc. and here's an example right here.
This M1A1 was purchased complete as a parts kit years ago. The receiver had been torchcut into 3 pieces but all other parts including the barrel are complete and useable. I had the front 2 pieces of the receiver tack welded back together(It's non dimensionally correct on purpose so a mag. won't go all the way in) so I could display it. If you look you can see that a section of the middle of the receiver is gone. This isn't even considered a gun per BATF regulations:

Here is the problem, people dont know! its that simple, they are popping up, and why Europe has more flex in how a machinegun is demilled than the U.S is beyond me. But not only is it the machinegun, but the way its demilled that is a problem. If I went through the forums, I bet I could find at least a dozen class 3 weapons based on the law that I never commented on as they were parked in the U.S. One guy as I said before on Ebay sent me when I requested pics of Browning parts, sent some really great pics, the whole receiver, barrel trunion and the barrel, even the butterfly group and sideplate intact! And this guy was a Priest raising money for his church, and he's got a .50 caliber belt fed Browning!!. Haaaaaaa!! I thought the guy was a loon at first and he's a priest.

I must get at least 3 or 4 calls a year from guys describing weapons they dug up out of old homes and attics, they dont know what they are. and parts? I dont know how many times I run into this, some guy a few shows ago had a drop in auto sear on his table for $10.00. Its almost funny.

A Marbles Game Getter made in the 1920s and fires a paper cartridge and a .22 caught my eye in a parking lot a couple years ago as it was stone mint with the original holster, a 2000.00 gun or better, and it had short barrels, and I look at the C&R and its not included, good thing I looked, as its an antique double barrel machinegun under the law. At least at that time.

Anyway, it appears that the record heat we have here has shortened my fuse a bit, and today is going to be the hottest of the year, so I am going to shut my computer down now, so I think when I get home.

Be careful with this stuff, it is big trouble, and I dont know if its just me, but it seems that more of it is happening.

Jim,

That gun is fine as far as im concerned as are most parts sets, its the attics and garage sales and parts that people dont know about, the guy who says "I have a nice M-1 Carbine" and you see the selector lever for the M-2 in place on the side of the reciever.

If you are uncertain about a weapon, dont post it, e-mail it to a friend or whatever, and this includes Dewats, as you could have a problem on your hands.

Kris

Kris:
Good advice: If you don't know leave it alone.
BTW: The reason the dewat laws are so stringent here is it was too easy to rewat something back in the 50s. A Thompson for example was dewated by welding the barrel closed the welding the barrel to the receiver. That was it! Five minutes with a cold chisel and you could have the welds off. It was an easy matter to change barrels.
Jim

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jim m,

Yes...the old days were not so tough on the way it was deactivated. This is why England has "Old Spec" and "New Spec" guns.

The old spec have moving parts, you can cycle it and fire, but not load a round into it. The Police were catching so many guns that had be re-activated, that a new law was set, and now they cut up the bolt, gas tubes and weld everything solid inside the receiver, the barrel is grind down ca. 10 inch and welded up the whole length of the cut.....you cant even move the trigger! This I tihnk is however only applicable to SMG´s, riffles and handguns. I think the bigger MG´s are still "Old Spec"

An "Old Spec" MP-40 / MP-44 will cost about 1800-2000 Pounds ($3600-4000) while the "New Spec" one is around 50-60 % less. Here is a link:

http://www.deactivatedguns.co.uk/deactivatedguns.htm

Regards

Hinrik