Hi there :
Probably a simple answer to this question ;
Why is the RZM logo and maker number/year and runes being displayed on the blade in 2 ways for the same year ?
a) RZM circle and back ground etched out and RZM logo and number/yearand runes with blade recessed writing has been 'blackened' .
b) RZM logo and rings , maker number/yearand runes and blade writing etched without any blackning .
Have seen this for the years 38 and 39.
Was this a change that was reqired by the RZM office or something the makers just did on their own.
As well then can one style be associated to the begining of that year and the other the later part of the year or were both types used at the same time through out the year ?
Thanks, Douglas 5

There are many varieties of SS RZM marks, not counting the presence of darkening. That goes away with polishing !

Why ? No one knows, but the conclusion I come to is that being charged with making all party items conform to strict norms, they failed to request conformity in the ways their marks were expressed.

You really should buy Tom Wittmann's SS book and some of these mysteries of SS edged weapons would be cleared up.

Dave

Hi Dave:
Does this site sell Tom Wittmann's book and how much ?
Does the book explain how to tell if a logo was originally blackened and lost all of it between those made with just a frosty appearance ? Looks like there is a coresponding blade type that goes with the etching style.
I guess what ever combination that looks better, as pictured below.
Douglas

All these daggers from the same year , the PDL and RZM logo would be beginning of the year and the other types later or is it known how much later and in what order ? Or if one paid more one got a better looking one ???

Pic 1 : Frosty logo on high polished blade :

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Douglas 5,

Pic 2: opposite effect and appearance :

Pic 3: early 1938 PDL - RZM marked : appearance half way between pic 1 and 2 .

Pic 4 : a 3rd type ??? Why in one year so many types ?

And last pic 5:
Was this one at one time a high shiny blade with deep black loggo but do polishing of previous owners it has gotten to this state ?
Or is this a 2nd type of 'light ' blackening ?
For PDL 1938 seams to have been the year of many changes , in 1939 logos were more consistant but then component parts show a lot of variety now .

To add on:
Can these pictured daggers be dated in any sequence which one was made in what order by type of ridge ???
Pic 1 and 2 ......low blade ridge
Pic 3 and 4......medium blade ridge
Pic 5.............high blade ridge

Thanks , Douglas

First, Pic 3 is of a trademark that some consider a fake so lets leave that out of the discussion.

In my opinion, the 4 other photos are of daggers that were identical (or as close as possible manufacturing allowed) when they left the factory.

#1 Is in almost untouched condition
#2 Is close up of a more worn dagger with the brightness jacked up.
#3 Is also a nice blade, but photographed from another angle.
#4 Is a well worn blade.

Most of the differences you point out are due wear and photography variances, not manufacturing differences.Even if those 4 blades were made the same day, there would be minor differences due to the fact that the darkening and final grind/polish/assembly were human operations.

Unfortunately, photos and particularly digital photos, make thing look different.

We sell books. I don't know if Vern has re-ordered the SS book. I will check.

Dave

Hi Dave:
I corrected the description on pic 1 from blackened logo to frosty logo , what it looks like. Reading your 2nd sentence again as to the '4 other daggers' being identical when leaving the factory , I my have made an error in doing so. Never thought using pictures could be this unreliable . Is this correct or is it the way it happens to show up in the picture and is actually blackened ? Just want to make sure I understand your explanation correctly .
OR did all blades leave the factory with a blackened marks and logo regardless of blade type ?
If not then are there 2 types ?
a)medium ridge , silver frosty markings probably early in that year, old blade stock .
b)higher ridge, blackened blade markings probably later in that year, new blade stock .

Wear and polishing has changed the apearance of the blade and removed some and or all of the blackning off the markings .
Something else I have notice on some 1053 blades , not shown, is different positioning of the motto on the other side , as to the start of it. 1/8" may be considered normal variance but 1/2" or more would be a major difference .
How closely did makers stick to the same motto location , of interest is the 1053 and what should the distance from last letter to the start of the tang be ?
In your last post I think you pic number 3 and 4 should read 4 and 5 as pic 3 was not being of the comparison.
Surprizingly there are 3 members here that have posted 3 different daggers with the dual maker markings as shown in picture 3 . A few of them seam to be out there .
Douglas