The SS Transitionals are a diverse group for sure - & it seems at first look, that Eickhorn had the majority of them.

I'll start this Thread off with the ones which I am aware of - and then you guys add the Others. (Examples of better Photos of any of the markings that I've shown would be greatly appreciated.)

Dave H indicated that he'd help to fill in any missing 'blanks' - as the number of SS Transitional Types is quoted as being 13 unique ones. Dave/dblmed

OK - here is the list so far

1. M7/66 SS 1938 + Eickhorn Squirrel holding sword
2. 941/36/SS + Large Eickhorn Mark serrated tail
3. 941/36/SS + Large Eickhorn Mark smooth tail
4. 941/37SS + Eickhorn Squirrel holding sword - "Original"
5. 941/38 SS + Eickhorn Squirrel holding sword - "Original"
6. 941/39 SS + Rat squirrel
7. 1163/38 SS + FuA Helbig mark
8. 15/38 SS & JA Henckels Mark in double oval
9. 15/39 SS & JA Henckels Mark NOT in double oval
10. 1164/38 SS + David Malsch
11
12
13



I have left off the 1937 and 1938 Eickhorns without the word "Original" as there is some debate about those blades.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave Hohaus,

"I have left off the 1937 and 1938 Eickhorns without the word "Original" as ther is some debate about these blades" Dave Hohaus

Why is that Dave? I brought an example to the SOS last year just because of the questions raised by a certain inactive member here and both Gailen David and Tom Wittmann examined it at Craigs party. Both stated it is a period example of a Eickhorn transitional dagger. I'm citing them since this was done in public but several others also examined it and stated it was a good example. As a matter of fact; I think you were standing there when David and Wittmann examined it. Isn't their word that it's legit good enough??
Perhaps the smooth tailed Eickhorn Himmlers ought to be relegated to no mans land since there's some "debate" about them too.
We aren't going to start this BS up again are we??
Jim

I could be mistaken, and will have to check my records, but I'm fairly certain I pulled an Eickhorn 'original' transitional out of the woodwork (an estate sale) 7 or 8 years back and I am certain it was right.

Jonathan

May I add David Malsch 1164/38 to the list.

As requested.

Jim

I was there when you had your dagger!

And I concur that everyone you mentioned
said no problem.

PVON

I have added that one - good post!

Thanks Dieter777,

The SS RZM Transitional DAVID MALSCH 1164/38 is Beauty & a Completely (Previously) Unknown Marking, IMO.

This is the type of Information which we need to see in this Thread.

Thanks for Posting the markings!

CONGRATS! On a Really Neat SS Dagger! Dave/dblmed

You can add the Henckels "small twins" RZM 15/39 SS also.
Sorry, I dont have a pic of it.

Cheers,

Whoops, I had a bad pic here

Dave--can you update the list including the above? Thanks

Any more out there?

Cheers,

Still 2-3 out there

Dave

How are we doing in finding the 2-3 'Missing' SS RZM Transitionals?

Need ID Photo - to Add to the List. Dave/dblmed

How about Klaas?

Nope. Klass made early ones and RZM ones but no transitionals.

Dave

Here's a better pic of the Henckels

How about this one? It was in my SS dagger photo file, but I don't have a picture of the other side, and I don't recall where I got this picture. No SS on the numbering though....

Better pic of 36

I sincerely think that the word "transitional" is often misused.
Let me explain, I think that the whole concept of transitional SS EM first came from T. Wittmann in his wonderful book on SS edged weapons.
If you look at any dictionary, you'll see that the meaning of transitional is, and I quote from the Webster Dictionary, "passage from one state, stage or subject to another".
To me, a transitional SS EM, or any daggers from that matter, would mean a mixture of early and mid or late period parts.
Would an all plated type fittings, painted scabbard, aluminum eagle inlay and a
double RZM and maker marked logo be considered as transitional ?
I don't think so.
However, would a single RZM marked SS blade, with an early anodized scabbard, nickel silver hilt fittings and nickel silver eagle inlay be considered NON TRANSITIONAL, simply because it doesn't has the double mark on the blade ?
I don't think so either.
To me, any type daggers that has a mixture of both early and late material should, and is a transitional dagger, whether or not it has a double RZM/maker marked.
Just a thought !

Would anyone consider this dagger to transitional or just a late model type SS EM ?
A double marked blade could be transitional but most are NOT, especially when being made up with all late component parts.

Aside from a difference of opinion on the word "transitional", it is a great instructive thread.

Vintagetimenow, - I believe the makermarked K&M with RZM M7/29 to be from a SA blade.

Pat, I guess we can say that the transitionals in this thread are about the transitions from maker-marked (only) to RZM codes (only)...

Maybe a more appropriate title for the thread would be "Double maker marked daggers", as I also fully agree with the use of "transitional daggers" is for daggers with a mixture of early and late style production parts.

Great thread!!!

Regards,

A really great discussion here - and THAT is what the Forum is about.....Learning & Sharing.

Pat, I agree that TRANSITIONALS is a bit of a confusing misnomer. But, we are stuck with Collecting Words like ANODIZED for early scabbard finishes - which we have learned is an incorrect term. Seems like TW coined Type 1 and Type 2 - so maybe he'll have other descriptive terms for the SA / NSKK's whenever that book comes out?

It's great interesting to read the discussions related to "ORIGINAL" being etched, or not, on the Eickhorns. THAT would be a great topic for a formative 'Conclusion' at the next MAX.

We've seen a lot of SS 'Transitionals' (for lack of a better word) - but it seems that there are still 2-3 Unknowns left to find. Dave/dblmed

Hi Dave,

I didn't know that the word anodized was not correct to describe an early scabbard finish.
I learn something new everyday !

Dave:
My SS dagger w/o the word "Original" is right as rain. There is no question for me or anyone who has seen it that it is a factory produced Eickhorn transitional dagger. The absense of the word "original" remains a mystery.
However IMO if the SA transitional examples w/o "Original" are accepted then my SS example has to be accepted as well. You can't have it both ways.
This dagger will probably be making the trip to the SOS(again) in the hopes of clearing things up.
Pat "Anodizing" is a process used to color aluminum and has nothing to do with the finishing of dagger scabbards. The early scabbards are either browned(SA,NSKK) or blued(SS) which is basically the same process used with firearms.
Jim

Have you got this one for your Reference,sorry about the runes being covered,nats

http://members.lycos.nl/stantheman/

How about such an example as the E.P&S shown here??:
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/m/8720006325

Regards,

Trigger,

99% of people agree that the Himmler dedication is found only on Eickhorn daggers with the ealy small double oval trademark. That one is a reproduction in my opinion.

Dave