Hello,

this is the Tread for opinions who have Product
the Daggers.

who have your opinions after the manufactor from 120.........

You can take a opinion or can take your opinion whit Pics Post.
or or or.

I would be glade(?) about answers!

Best Regards Sebastian

I have read that 120 could be linked to Pack> Don't know how true this is but it is stated in an RZM book.
SSman

Not True. No proof.

Dave

Dave. If there is no proof why could it not possibly be Pack? Like I stated this is what I read.
SSman

It could be ANY German manufacturer or assembler but no proof tying it to any one exists as far as I know. Same for several other SS RZM makers.

If you troll back through this forum, you will see attempts to identify unknown manufacturers by the components, fittings and blade etches used. Since a lot of work was done by subcontractors and suppliers of fittings were many, these similarities may offer clues but no final ID in my opinion.

Dave

Dave. I would never argue with you because you are 100% correct in saying that some dagger are not identified and might not ever be.
SSman

To me it makes no sense at all. Why would E.Pack use the 120 number, when Pack produced maker marked daggers at that time? Even if E.Pack switched into 120 code in 1934, wouldn't the factory use the same subcontractors for grips, crossguards and scabbards? The 120/34 daggers are not similar to ealy E.P.& S. daggers, are they?
If you need some info about typical E.P.& S. characteristics, just see here:
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...0093573/m/2420099065

777. All I said is I read in an older RZM book that 120 could have possibly been for pack? I guess the best thing is to mind my own business!!

SSman....your statement seemed valid to ME.....There was once no proof that the Earth was round, either.....

Bob.

Bob. You can't argue with the pros! There will probably never be any proof of who made these unknown daggers?
SSman

SSman, you are not alone. You are right. All you did was to try to shed some light on the subject, which, in part, is what a forum is for. There is no reason to be argumentative about what you noted. Differing opinions are to be expected on many topics, but they should be expressed with civility. This is not the first, nor the last, time a member tries to be helpful and winds up ducking verbal missles.

Grumpy. I am used to it! It is not the first time and will not be the last. It will be for me anyway!
SSman

Hey guys, don't take it too personal. I just gave my opinion on the subject, but I'm really far from launching "verbal missiles". If my post looked like that, then it's pure misunderstanding or someone is extremely touchy.
(Unless you were reffering to other opinions in this thread).
BTW. No reference book is free from mistakes, especially the older ones, so it is very normal to discuss and correct some of them on this forum, I guess.

777 this one looks like mine

The dagger 777 shows has for me textbook E-Pack traits. As a matter of fact I don't know of another "known" manufacturer that would have all those numerous part characteristics, screw placements, other then E-pack.
OK try this then...pretend that you don't see the 120 logo like it was ground away. Then ask someone "any idea what maker could have made this dagger"?
I know no proof but....LOOK.

-serge-

Well, it is one of the 3 I handled (still own 2, the one on the picture belongs now to Gottlieb), and 2 of them are matched with the scabbard with typical Pack upper fitting (ooops, I forgot about that fact ), but the crossguards of all 3 are "H" marked by the caster. All the Packs I handled were equipped in "horseshoe S" or unmarked crossguards.
Once again this is just my personal opinion and I'd be really happy when these (120 and 121) makers are identified.

How about a different angle of approach..It is known that some of these firms tha were quite large usually took up the whole city block. It is a know fact that buildings this large had 2 number addresses. It is just a theory but where are the numbers before like 117,118,119 and where are the numbers after,122 123 124 and so on. Why do these 2 numbers show up 120 and 121? then you have 188 and then higher. Just a thought Sieg B

Is it possible that these mystery makers are using street numbers?

Aren't all the SS RZM codes looking "random"?
There are: 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, and where are the 1050 and 1055 then? The same goes for 1196, 1197, 1198 etc.
And they don,t match with the street numbers (or rather house numbers) where the factories were located.

BTW. there is a presumption in T.Wittmann's book (vol.IV) that 120 and 121 could be attributed to Peter Daniel Krebs and Carl Julius Krebs, and it makes sense to me.

Yes I have seen that also as far as the style of he dagger pointing to Krebs. In Tom Johnsons Vol.8 points more to factory locations and addresses and a couple of them came close. I never said it was fact but theory, but the mystery of the 120 and 121 does have its surprises.