I have heard there are new laws in the UK where the shipping and receiving of swords and sabers is concerned. I heard it has been banned or soon will be. The only exception will be the possession a rein-actors permit? Is there any truth to this?

All the best ..

MW

The sale of new 'Samurai' type swords is to be banned in the UK, except for antique collectibles/
I think, not sure

Nolan

Hi Mr nolan ,trying to make out what tune you are struming away to is it a george formby hit ?

Thanks!

Anybody happen to know the current official laws as to shipping TR swords to England?

Probably in context with the big murder serial with knifes in london!As in all west countries, not the cause won't controvert,no the effect!Not the knife or sword kills people,but the brain.A one day here in europe it's forbidden to eat with knife and fork , can be kill a people.You laugh , the way to this is very short!Stupid community!

MW

In April 2008 the sale within and importation to the UK of swords with curved blades of 50 cms or longer was prohibited.

The measurement is a straight line from the top of the handle to the tip of the blade.

The exceptions to this

1) swords made in Japan before 1954.
2) swords made in Japan after 1954 if they were made using the traditional methods of forging swords.
3) where the sword is to be used for historical re-enactment.

In practical terms a TR sword/sabre falling into the defined category would be detained by Customs. The importer is entitled to challenge the detention and provide a defence.

IMO the only defence would be for historical re-enactment but I think the importer would have to be belong to an organised re-enactment group.

Ultimately if no valid excuse is provided the sword would be formally seized and destroyed.

Being a collector is not a valid reason.

Incidentally the ban was introduced following a number of attacks/murders using “Samurai” swords – usually cheap modern repro’s rather than priceless family heirlooms.

Due to the wording of the legislation, all sorts of other weapons such as TR sabres were included.

Hope this helps.

Richie

Thanks again!

That's what I was looking for.

Irony can be Ironic ..

MW

quote:

Originally posted by graeme gt:
Hi Mr nolan ,trying to make out what tune you are struming away to is it a george formby hit ?

Ha Haa, Leaning on a lampost

Nolan

Back to MW's question and Richies reply, this has very serious consequences for UK collectors as at the moment the USA is prime scource for edged weapons due to the favourable exchange rate. I think therefore it would be wise for UK collectors thinking of importing to check with customs before purchasing. There was a debate some time ago on here about import duties being levied on daggers being brought in from outside the EU, Gary(Baz 69)sent me some info about items of historical interest being exempt, maybe this could be applied to get round the new ruling, I really dont know.

Nolan

I can supply some more information on this.

1) Import duties/Value Added Tax (VAT)

All commercial consignments with a value exceeding £18.00 ($36.00) from outside the European Union (i.e. the US) are liable to VAT (Standard rate = 17.5%).

A sword worth £100.00 ($200.00) would be charged 17.5 % VAT so the UK importer would have to pay an extra £17.50 ($35.00).

Additionally there is an administration charge of between £8.00 - £12.00 depending on the carrier (Royal Mail or Parcelforce).

Having said that, most UK collectors/importers (myself included as a bayonet collector) are used to this and grudgingly accept it.

Antiques (over 100 years old) attract a reduced rate of VAT (5%)

2) Banned weapons

A separate issue is the ban on the importation onto the UK and sale within the UK of certain types of specified weapons.

This used to include knuckle dusters, flick knives, auto knives and a whole range of martial arts weapons.

The law introduced earlier this year added swords (and all other bladed weapons) with curved blades of 50 cms or longer to the list of banned items.

The exceptions to this legislation were shown in my previous post on this subject.

I should add that antique items – (generally defined as over 100 years old) are exempt so a Napoleonic sabre should be OK providing HM Revenue and Customs are given sufficient proof of age by the importer.

I have done some more research and I can see no exemption to the ban for non-antique items simply because they happen to be of historical interest to a collector.

Hope this helps.

Richie

Hi Richie,
What you are saying is that we (in the UK)
could see the "drying up" of TR swords
coming from the US??? unless one can "lean on"
your friendly neighborhood HMCR man??
What of shipping from the US to a recipient in the EU who tranships to UK? then no holdup as
imports from EU OK??
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Seiler

Post from the EU can be and is, I believe examined for prohibited items.

Friendly HMRC man - they do exist but we oops sorry they have to abide by the law and the rules.

The only exceptions to the import rules are those I have specified.

Technically this does mean that TR sabres cannot be imported - any that are detected will be liable to seizure - unless for historic re-enactment.

The change to the law also means of course that your friendly local London military antique dealer would be breaking the law if they sold a TR sabre.

As you live in the UK I'm sure you are well aware of the media coverage of the current knife "problem" especially in London.

The original intention of the legislation was to ban the "Samurai" sword especially the cheap and nasty ones used by thugs on the street.

Whilst this was I'm sure a worthy attempt, the drafting of the legislation was such that all sorts of other swords were included.

Rumour control ...

1) The ban will include all swords

2) The original legislation will be amended to allow the sale of genuine collectors swords such as TR sabres.

Watch this space.

Richie

On another forum someone had a 1796 British LC sabre(very curvy!) stopped. He was able to get it released on appeal due to its age and historic value. A 2nd ammendment to this half thought out law is being discussed and should soon be passed.Thereafter any sword made before 1954, or modern sword made traditionally will be legal.Of course all this only applies to CURVED swords, straight blades are legal anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Vaughan:
A 2nd ammendment to this half thought out law is being discussed and should soon be passed.Thereafter any sword made before 1954, or modern sword made traditionally will be legal.Of course all this only applies to CURVED swords, straight blades are legal anyway.

Good news - the rumours must have been true for once

Richie

If anyone's interested this takes you to the new proposition:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/draft/em/ukdsiem_9780110817774_en.pdf

Well, this is good news indeed.

Sure hope this new proposition is passed ..

Please keep us posted ..

All the best ..

I was looking to bringing in a Luft sword from a US dealer, looking at the info here I should be OK, the VAT is a killer though on a $2k sword

Nolan

I have an English friend whose very expensive TR sword has been sitting in the Customs office for nearly two months. He bought it from a collector in EU. He is a register re-enactor. This does not bode well for the rest of us.
I would love to see the law revised, but I have no faith in any governments eagerness to help collectors. Government by nature is about control, quick to grab & slow to release.

Some time ago,I purchased a Luft sword from
TJ.He boxed and wrapped it for me.Picked it up in person.Checked it in at A,port as normal,no questions.At Gatwick wheeled it in trolley thru the "Green Lane" sticking up of course like sore thumb.
Customs guy says "What you got there"?pulling me
over."WW11 German sword " says, I.
Turns to his partner laughing.."Any blood on it??" and waves me thru????Just goes to show.
True tale.Honesty is the best policy....
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Doug:

Two years ago, on returning to Canada from a MAX show, I declared my daggers to Customs.

I had a couple of very young customs officers eagerly waiting for me in order to 'inspect' the daggers. They were impressed, after getting over the shock of them being 'Nazi' items. After looking at each one, they thanked me for declaring them and for giving them the opportunity to examine them.

A few hundred dollars in sales taxes later, I was home free.

John

I see 'diplo matt' has bought a Japanese sword on the for sale forum. I hope he gets it to the UK without problems.
Maybe you will keep us posted on this dippy.

Nolan

There is also a German fellow trying to buy it over on the WAF.