A friend of mine has listed what I believe is an Imperial German Cavalry sword.

The grip is identical to the ones in my Eichkorn Catalogue, but the hand guard I can not identify.

This sword is listed on Ebay and one person has suggested it is South American. But, there are no marks on it other than Carl Eichkorn. Every dagger or sword I have ever seen from South of the border has been marked with some indication of the country.

Any ideas?
Thank you

This has a very heavy blade.

Our assumption was this was an enlisted cavalry man's working sword.

Any help is appreciated.

Jim

The itentity of this saber is a mystery to me, and I have a number of original Eickhorn catalogs, non of which containg the exact model . I have one in my collection, and have been trying to pin down the ID for a long time.

Someone said it was an Imperial German horse drawn artillery saber, and it might have been on this forum, but it was a long time ago. Hopefully someone can pin it down exactly. An illustration from an original catalog would be nice. Joe S

Could it be a sword made under contract for another country?

Jim,

This is an Eickhorn export cavalry sabre. It is shown as an Eickhorn Nr. 1265 Mannschaftsabel in the South American export catalogs.

Hi >>>this is either >>>Prussian or Saxon Cavalry Sword M-89,>>>or maybe this one just missing the guard >>or something

I dont have the catalog right in front of me, but my recollection is that the ones illustrated are not exactly like this one, either the blade or hilt is slightly different. Mine has what appear to be imperial cyphers , a gothic "T" if I recall. Joe S

These generic "model 1889" type swords without basket guards are odd. I would think that one with German inspection cyphers would have been used by one of the German states. Those without German cyphers or dates should have been export sabers. Of course, the foreign buyers might have required German government testing before delivery as well. So, there could be German inspection markings but there should not be acceptance markings like "W/17" on export swords.

The sword is really a generic variation of the 1889 Prussian Cavalry Saber with a slightly different guard without state insignia. I might also mention that I have seen these particular swords reproduced in China and for sale on ebay recently so one should be careful with them.

I really appreciate all the feed back.

So, if I was to restate this all in simple terms.

This is a rather generic sword that was produced for a number of markets from Germany to South America.

The total lack of inspection marks would indicate this was for export.

Do I have it correct?

Jim

I’ve had several of these swords, keeping the one with unit markings (Prussian as I recall) and one or two inspection marks. The inspection marks were (from memory) a little different than for example the issue straight bladed KD89 or M 1956 n/A Artilleriesäbel. I also recall in the dim past seeing a posed photograph with a similar saber - but have a problem with them in general seeing some obvious "studio property" sidearms being used sometimes versus what should be seen.

My assumption has been that the the sword I have was originally an export model taken into German service as an ersatz artillery saber. With some probably going to the original customer. And others taken into German service like some of the bayonets. FP

I went over this one with a good eye, and can find absolutely no inspection marks.

I have to wait until 11:00 to call my friend to ask for the provinance on this.

thank you again

Jim

I took another look at the sword, and I find a stamp on the upper spine of the blade about two inches from the hand guard. I can not quite make it out, but it looks to be a D with a crown on it. Could be an O.

Jim

I have a Eickhorn 1913 export catalog.. In that Catalog it is called simply a (trooper sword)model 1265 Regards: Jim

In the 1913 catalog this was for general export,not just for South America... I also have the reprint of the South American swords etc... book. Regards: James

quote:

Originally posted by Jim W:
I took another look at the sword, and I find a stamp on the upper spine of the blade about two inches from the hand guard. I can not quite make it out, but it looks to be a D with a crown on it. Could be an O.

Jim

Jim,

The marking you describe would be a German military inspection mark. It could have been inspected for export (if required by the purchaser) or for domestic use.

For what it’s worth, my example has multiple (but limited) inspection stamps, and was made by F.W. Holler. It also is unit marked to an ersatz Prussian field artillery regiment. FP

With all this information, I am seriously thinking about having Mac pull the add and relist it.

I just hate to do that when people are already bidding.

Thank you everyone. There is a real wealth of knowledge here.

Jim

Jim, I don’t know the exact language of the listing, but “Imperial German Cavalry sword” clearly I think seems to be in error. And while period Eickhorn catalogues call a fullered blade version an enlisted man’s trooper’s sword - based on the “Prussian Model 1889 Cavalry Saber" - that is in error by itself because the Preußischer Kavalleriedegen M 1889 was not a saber.

However, the fact is that at least some of these sabers were used as (presumed ersatz) Prussian artillery sabers. And I think that it’s fair to state that this type of saber was used (albeit limited) by the German Army during the Imperial era. So perhaps the language of the ad could be changed to reflect the new information (or something to that effect).

My point being that is the best information at hand, and should not give cause for complaints about misdescribing an item for sale if there was a dispute at some point.

PS: Typo correction: Correct my earlier reply to read - " M 1856 n/A Artilleriesäbel" (embarrassed). Best Regards, FP

So, how is this for a proper add?

Eickhorn Enlisted Ranks Sword/Saber model #1265 Pre WWI.

This model is seen in several of the Eickhorn Export Catalogues from before WWI. Some examples I have heard of have Prussian artillery unit markings as well as proof marks demonstrating these were used by Prussian Artillery units as well as being exported to other countries as a generic sword available for the enlisted ranks.

While the photos show surface discoloration, there is no real rust issue here and this should all buff out if someone has a mind to. There are a couple of small dents to the scabbard, but nothing noticeable. The grip is excellent as are the grip fittings, pommel and backstrap. Note the solid knuckle guard. This Saber has an inspection mark on the blade spine.

Jim,

That sounds like a reasonable description of the sword to me. My only suggestion would be to leave out the saber reference because a slash mark "sword/saber" might not hit either on a word search. What do you think Fred?

(Not to confuse the issue, there was an export model to Argentina that had the full basket KD89 type of guard with the Argentine coat of arms - and a curved saber type of blade. But that is just a piece of additional information that does not really have a bearing here.)

I’m not in the ad copy writing business. But how about:

“Imperial German era Eickhorn Enlisted Ranks Sword

Seen in Eickhorn Export Catalogues as the Model #1265 from that era. Some examples of the sword are reported as having Prussian artillery unit markings, as well as proof marks, demonstrating use by the German Army. As well as being exported to other countries as a generic cavalry sword available for the enlisted ranks.

While the photos show surface discoloration, there is no real rust issue here and this should all buff out if someone has a mind to. There are a couple of small dents to the scabbard, but nothing really noticeable. The grip is excellent as are the grip fittings, pommel and backstrap. Note the solid knuckle guard. And the curved saber type of blade, with the Eickhorn logo on the side, which also has an inspection/proof mark on its spine.”

(Rationale: Sword might get more hits than saber?)

My Best Regards to All, FP

Thanks guys,

I appeciate the help. Macs a friend of mine and an experienced dealer who likes to get things right. He is unable to use the computer or camera himself so I help him.

This sword stumped even Mac which is why I turned to you. I note with gratitude the Add Copy Writing done here. I just couldn't get this one straight.

Jim