Gentleman
I would like any and all opinions on this 1st model Luftwaffe dagger. It looks to be a presentation to a luftwaffe pilot for bravery in dogfights? It has a damascus blade with the pilots name and some inscription. My German is not real good so translations will be appreciated. Does anyone know if i can I find out who the pilot was? I guess the other question is is this dagger pre 1945 or post 1945?
Thanks for any and all help.
Michael

another photo

photo

inscription on the blade.

blade maker

Translation needed

On the bottom of the cross guard.

damascus blade

scabbard and chain

hangar mark

tang

top piece

It is,IMO,an acid etched blade and not
forged damascus.Lets have a close up of the blade edge please.(Not the tip.)Also a better
pic of the maker mark.Tks.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

P.D. Lunischeid!

A well known and acknowledged post-war reproduction blade.

For an in depth exposure, read, Fredrich Stephan’s, "Reproduction-Recognition"

Regards,

John

I'm in agreement, and shows what 30 plus years of aging might look like. As per the July 19th 1937 Luftwaffen-Verordungsblatt. Officers were to replace their previous daggers with the second model on or by October 1, 1937.

With the first model becoming more of the sidearm for enlisted men (as time goes on it gets a little more complicated). But it’s not the first example that I’ve seen where the facts of the matter have had serious conflicts with what are "supposed to be" period artifacts. FP

Thanks John.Was sure I had seen the reference
pics somewhere.Old age I guess
Seiler

I agree on the blade which is a P D Luneschloss and was a popular logo used by the Spanish repro makers. However; I think the rest could be original period parts. It would take a hands on to tell for sure.
Jim

hello John and others
Thanks for the information on the luft. dagger.
The maker is P.D.Luneschloss which was a real pre 1945 dagger maker,correct?
I don't have access to the dagger for better pictures, wish I could but I am not the owner, it has been offered for sale to a friend of mine.
Am I reading your reply correctly that this exact blade has been acknowledged as a known post war made blade ?
Story down here goes it walked into a gun show in Lakeland Fla. and was traded for a Luger worth about $1500. The new owner is asking $9500 for it.
If it is a post war made up piece in your opinion please advise.
I don't have access to any dagger books or know much about daggers.
thanks
Michael

While P D Luneschloss was a pre 1945 maker the concensus here is this blade is post war. The guy who traded it for the Luger got a good deal!
Jim

Tell your friend to pass on the dagger, judging from the comments above.

Dave

Well known reproductions from the 1960s and with that TM, it will never be accepted by knowleged collectors.
JMO,
Ron Weinand

Gentleman
Thank you for the responces. My friend will pass on this dagger and he will advise the owner it is not pre 1945 but post 1945 along with comments from this forum. I found a site with all WWII German pilots listed and this guys name does not show up, there's another negative for this dagger.
"Saved by the bell"
thanks again
Michael

Cost of owning a bogus dagger $1500?
Cost of a picture of the new owners face when he's told this?----PRICELESS

Jim
Normally I wouldn't make fun of someone caught up in a bad deal but I'm making an exception here. I'm pretty sure that when he traded a $1500 Luger for this piece he felt he was stealing it from whoever brought it in.

Hi..I'm new here. Been "lurkin'" around a little & just had to comment on this one! A guy trades a 1500 luger, then ask's for an $8000. profit when selling the dagger! Whew! If it was really worth $9500. wouldn't that be considered taking advantage of the luger seller, almost to a criminal level? I once read if someone uses his knowledge/expertise to perpetuate a fraud, he could be charged with a crime. Now, if the guy was asking 8000, for the luger...different story. But..if he said.."I don't know, whats it worth?" and the expert tells him 1500, when it was worth way more, he's abusing his knowledge...it's more common with car dealers, trade-in value, etc.

I'll get some pics of my 1st pattern, w/Kissing Kranes logo, soon. I'm always interested in other opinions.
Cheers, R/H

This is really only the first chapter in this story. And if you think the current owner’s behavior is criminal now, it could even get a lot worse. The guy who now wants $9500.00 for the dagger has two choices. He will sell it as is, advising any potential buyers(s) that it is a postwar altered fake. And price it accordingly.

Or he will “lie and deny” (which I'm sorry to say is all too common) and claim it is original. Trying to sell it to someone who is even more stupid than he is - with more money than brains which is also not uncommon. Which is why checking things out first on a forum such as this one (where expertise is lacking). Is a good way to try and prevent making a mistake before money changes hands.

Anyone care to guess which path the current seller will take? FP

quote:

Originally posted by Roadhog:
Hi..I'm new here. Been "lurkin'" around a little & just had to comment on this one! A guy trades a 1500 luger, then ask's for an $8000. profit when selling the dagger! Whew! If it was really worth $9500. wouldn't that be considered taking advantage of the luger seller, almost to a criminal level?

Roadhog,
"welcome to the jungle" Fred's second outcome is more like the way it will go!

Bret Van Sant

I fear Fred's 2nd scenario is the more likely too, & he'll focus on a collector with more money than brains. Very sad indeed.